Mark Edwards has an animated, all-encompassing chat with award-winning, published author, strategist and brand expert Minter Dial
Background
Minter is a welcome and lively guest on BOSS-it. He introduces himself as 56 years old, living in London, an American citizen with a French passport, married to a Spanish lady
He's changed profession & moved country 15 times, worked at L’Oréal cosmetics company for 16 years and also at an investment bank. He started a travel agency for musicians, taught tennis, worked in a zoo and an aquarium.
Minter has also written a novel, a biography and 3 business books and produced a World War II documentary.,
Many Changes Create DIversity of Outlook
When you’re creating teams, diversity of backgrounds, opinions, mindsets is really valuable. People often talk positively about individuals being “like-minded”. In fact, this can be a real impediment to creating breakthroughs and stronger businesses.
The changes of location and role have allowed Minter to explore many different peoples. As he says, simply learning languages requires mental agility to switch between languages - But it’s not just the language, it’s also the meaning, the cultural context, even the way people use their hands expressively. You have to be hugely observant of others.
From his time studying literature at uni, he has learned to observe the context of language and the way people think and feel. Whereas in business, people tend to concentrate on competencies when really, it’s culture and mindset, feelings, manners and the ability to communicate that are important - as well as emotional intelligence.
For this reason, Minter began hiring anthropologists and sociologists for his team because they provide distinct and valuable insights into the way we are - Not just hiring like-minded and competent individuals.
On Being Authentic
Being able to embrace your imperfections means you can be more grateful about the present and you understand how tiny we all are in the Universe. And then you understand that it’s all about relationships and enjoying the journey - It’s not about getting the bigger house or the bigger pay cheque.
When you reposition yourself as a “little numbskull” in an enormous Universe, it keeps your feet on the ground and helps you understand what really matters to you and to those around you.
Life After Business
You’re running a company and then you sell it and you then have a chance to do nothing. The question it then raises is why were you running the business and to what extent was the business a manifestation of who you are? Do you come back to the business because it’s all you know - or is it because it’s a part of who you are?
The challenge is that you have to work so hard to get the business going that you get used to being very busy. To what extent have you cultivated yourself and moved from just 'doing' to ‘being’?
When it comes time to leave, business owners often want to do something good with the money, such as give it to charity.
Minter turns this idea on its head, suggesting that entrepreneurs should do these things simultaneously with running their business. He suggests running that charity right now, to make a difference while you’re here because you might die before you get chance, if you wait until you retire.
Trust and Values
Trust can only come from the entire person - So, when somebody doesn’t have their own home life in order, it has an influence on who they are at work. For example, a single person may not have empathy for those with families; a boss who has a wife and a mistress and says “We are a family at work”, his behaviour is not congruent with his stated principles.
We tend to view work and life as separate entities but the way somebody treats people outside of the work environment has a definite impact on their business life.
Solving Problems, Talking to Business Leaders..
There are, of course, always business challenges - Recruit better people, faster growth etc - Within that, it’s likely the founder’s personality has an influence. This can impact the culture of the business, the behaviour of individuals, the speed of communication within the organisation, the motivational schemes that have been set up - obviously with his or her approval.
So, as you get into understanding the strategic issues, you inevitably find it’s about the culture of the organisation - language, behaviours and rituals which have been put in place - These all come from somewhere.
Understanding What's Important
Minter tries to understand what is important to the leader. As he uncovers the reasons, Minter finds it’s often nothing to do with the business, rather it’s something deeply personal and important to the individual. It takes different lines of questioning to establish what truly motivates the individual and Minter’s aim is to reach a point where he can ask, “Who do you want to be? What do you want your personal legacy to be?”
If they say they want to be a “gazillionaire” then they’re not ready to have deeper conversations.
If you understand who you are on a deep level, you will be able to lead better, meaning more effectively, but you will also be a better person. Because 70% of the workforce describe themselves as disengaged year after year, it makes logical sense that leadership must be the root cause.
On Being No.1
Being No.1 is just a number and only one company can be number 1 - So often we have these vanity constructs around such aspirations but people need to ask themselves why they are fighting and what they are fighting for.
For companies striving to be No.1 in the world, Minter turns the concept on its head, suggesting instead they aim to be “No.1 for the world”. It’s a completely different perspective and is much more authentic, which will build trust, foster better relationships, gain better engagement from employees and hopefully more sales.
On Ageing and Staying Curious
Change things up - When you put on your trousers or underwear, change legs - 97% of what we do every day is the same every day. We are creatures of habit - Can we “unwire” ourselves?
Locked away in the ivory tower that is HQ, leaders become isolated from reality, because nobody has the courage to tell the boss what’s going on.
Leaders need to do more learning to experience things first hand - Not just read about stuff in the Financial Times.
Keep on “checking out the new stuff” and that’s how you’ll stay young at heart and be able to contribute longer-term to the business. Older people have experience and there’s value in that.
Know Yourself
As people age, they get to know themselves. Minter thinks they should start getting to know themselves earlier. Too often people wait too long to really ‘lean in’ to who they are because they’re in the rat race of keeping up and paying the mortgage and getting the next promotion.
If you don’t make the effort to know yourself early on, you’ll end up surrounded by people who don’t know who you are because you don’t know who you are yourself.
It’s about being more intentional about this.
There is a fear factor that may worry people about themselves - their imperfections and even their dark side. If this isn’t sorted, you’re not going to be authentic with people and therefore they will see you as ‘shady’ because you’re not clear about who you are.
Changing Mindsets
There is no ‘one size fits all’ with changing the way people think. Context, culture, where you come from and history all have a major impact so it’s impossible to give a generic answer.
Minter believes that change happens at the top - So, leaders need to be willing to listen and to embrace the fact they need help. Leaders need to be able to exhibit the behaviours of change themselves and be self-aware about what their own contribution is. Including having the humility to accept that they don’t know everything and the ability to listen actively
Minter cites his experience at professional haircare giant, Redken, where a shareholder was pushing for growth.
The executive team realised they need to be aligned or the cracks would show further down the hierarchy. Two execs on the team identified themselves as not being willing to do whatever it took.
They drew in 150 next-level staff and created a roadmap for what they were going to discuss but had no pre-defined outcomes.
Because the more you are tied to an outcome, the more it’s going to be evident in your language and the way you push for it. You need to consider the journey but not know the destination - This means you have to let go of control and create an environment where people’s opinions are valued and the team is trusted to contribute.
As a team, they defined the behaviours they expected of each other, including how they communicated, how they ran meetings and how they ‘showed up’. They were very explicit about these behaviours and importantly, they also asked what would happen if they didn’t happen. If that’s not in place, things can quickly go wrong - You need to be able to quickly demonstrate the consequence and get everybody engaged in the process.
What are you most proud of in your business life?
L’Oréal was launching a new product and it was 5 or 6 times more expensive than any other product they’d sold. I had to convince the management team that this was a great idea. Then get the sales team onboard and convince the manufacturing team, as they had to change their whole set-up. I sold the vision behind it and the product is still being sold 25 years later. Having the courage of your convictions is important; sometimes you need to be prepared to stand out and take the heat.
What personal achievement are you most proud of?
The journey I was on for 25 years to discover who my grandfather and grandmother were. My grandfather was killed in a Japanese Prisoner of War camp - To understand what they went through and to give thanks for the freedoms they fought for. Minter interviewed 130 WW2 veterans for the film, and it made him realise how truly privileged we are to be living the lives we do. Minter bellieves we can learn from the values they espoused, that they had a higher sense of honour and levels of courage and love that ran very deep.
Minter's film, “The Last Ring Home” outlines some of the challenges of having a father who didn’t return home and coming to terms with it. Through this journey, Minter and his father were able to understand themselves better and allow themselves to cry.
Final Thoughts...
Life is short - We need to cherish it; cherish the people we love and accept our emotions and imperfections.
Thanks so much, Minter for a really interesting and enlightening conversation.
Links & Contact:
The Last Ring Home
Film: http://www.thelastringhome.com/
Book: http://www.thelastringhome.com/book
Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs
Minter Dial:
https://www.minterdial.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/minterdial/?originalSubdomain=uk
https://www.facebook.com/minterdial/
Mark Edwards:
https://www.bossequity.com/resources/podcasts
https://www.linkedin.com/in/markledwards/
https://www.bossequity.com/
